How to Navigate the Complexities of Modular Construction and Ensure a Successful Project w/ Prefab Logic [podcast transcript]

Welcome everyone. My name is John McMullen. And I'm the Marketing Director here at MBI. Today I'm talking with Curtis Fletcher, co-founder and chief strategy officer at Prefab Logic. Curtis is here to talk about the best ways to mitigate some of the complexities of modular construction, and the lessons he's learned from his years in the modular industry. Curtis, welcome.

Curtis Fletcher 

Thank you, John, really appreciate you having me on.

John McMullen 

It's my pleasure. Thank you. So, tell me about yourself, Curtis. You have a long history in modular construction. Can you give me a brief history of your career so far?

Curtis Fletcher 

Sure. Sure. I started straight out of school at Fleetwood Enterprise—actually down in their corporate offices in Riverside—manufactured industry doing RVs, travel trailers in the product development group. And from there I got into manufactured housing and then eventually spawned into my own business doing modular buildings, large scale modular buildings, out of a firm for about 10 years. And then I started Prefab Logic in 2015 with my partner, Rick Murdoch, after he departed from Guerdon Enterprises, and here we are today.

John McMullen 

Very good. So, what's kept you in the industry all these years? I know you've had Prefab Logic, and then lots of other projects…What keeps you going?

Curtis Fletcher 

You know, it's, it's the manufacturing side of it, and the product development side of the business that I really enjoy, you know, the creation component to the business that really gets me up in the morning. wasn't a problem solving.

John McMullen 

So, let's focus on Prefab Logic. You started that company in 2015, as you mentioned, with your partner, Rick Murdock, and you guys are modular consultants. Is that right? What does that what does that mean?

Curtis Fletcher 

Yeah, so we are, you know, we basically started the business with a premise in mind that we are bridging the gap between the manufacturing groups, the developer, and the general contractor, there always seems to be this disconnect between the groups and, and the large, unknown components to modular building, you know, on the developer and general contracting side of the business. And so that business is really spawned to create a synergy between the groups and provide all the information they need to actually get the project done efficiently, from drawings to data, etc.

John McMullen 

So, what's the process and when are you guys typically brought into a project?

Curtis Fletcher 

Typically, early in the process, you know, usually in the schematic design phase. Prefab Logic gets engaged in the project and helps steer the project. And nowadays, because the markets become so competitive, we're actually involved in the project, even in the entitlement phase; we'll do some early consulting to help make sure that the project is going to be able to be built in a modular fashion. So, you know, anywhere from that, that entitlement through setting phase will get involved and help drive the project forward.

John McMullen 

So, when you're coming in so early, what's your process for evaluating a project when you first become involved? I guess, whenever in the process you do become involved, what's that process look like? And what are you looking for?

Curtis Fletcher 

So, early in the process, our team will take a look at the project and determine whether it's going to be viable for modular in the first place. And then what that really means is, you know, one, does the site really even lend itself to getting modules onto the job site? Right? Are the power lines? Are there other parameters that are gonna keep that from happening or other transportation things? And then, you know, can we get the building to fit within the module? Or if it's down the road in design a bit and modules just don't really work and they don't have a lot of flexibility in the design. Then we'll sort of, you know, give that news to the developer and let them know early on.

Our job, in my view, is to get them the fastest answer. If it's going to be a “no,” we want that answer to come quickly so that they don't waste their time pursuing something that's not going to happen.

John McMullen 

What's the most complex aspect of a modular project? What do you what do you do to mitigate that complexity?

Curtis Fletcher 

You know, I would say, I mean, two things, right? The structural and the, the MEP systems, right: your mechanical, electrical, plumbing components, you know, tend to be some of the most difficult components and problematic areas in a modular project, because every module comes out completely finished on the inside to the highest extent possible, which means all those systems are in place. And you have to know that you can get those connections to happen vertically and horizontally in the field with the least interruption or, or impact the unit's interior, right.

And so, the most complex part of the project is getting that that stuff figured out ahead of time before the project hits the production line, and before it hits the site, so that everybody has a clear view of what that is going to entail when you get to the job site, and, and how difficult it's going to be or how easy it's going to be right.

John McMullen 

So in a nutshell, what's the value of having an outside management firm, like Prefab Logic, you know, as opposed to not having one at all?

Curtis Fletcher 

You know, we often refer to it as an insurance policy, right? It's one of those things that if you don't take the time to actually figure the project out completely and intricately the way we do, it's, it's very difficult to know, you know, for the factory to know how they're actually going to accomplish it. And for the onsite crew to know how they're going to accomplish it. If you don't figure out all the nuts and bolts because it is a manufacturing environment that this is being done in, if we don't figure all that stuff out ahead of time, then your result is going to be not so great. Right? You're not going to have the result you're looking for and you're going to be disappointed.

It really takes a group of people that understand the manufacturing process, and the on-site install and completion process to bring that together so that everybody feels the least amount of pain in doing this process all together.

John McMullen 

So what are some of the common missteps? And you alluded to some just now, but what is some of the common missteps that you've seen builders or designers or manufacturers make during a modular project? And what's your advice for how they can be avoided?

Curtis Fletcher 

You know, I mean, I think I think that probably the biggest misstep is not planning for modular in the first place. That's probably number one. Right. But other than that, I think it's just assuming that that somebody got it, right, somebody, somebody is going to take care of that. Right? Because, because often they don't, and it's nobody's I mean, it's just, it's just that it's not accounted for, it's no different than a scope of work for a contractor where you're, you're doing a scope of work to assure that everybody's got their piece of the puzzle covered, right, and that there's no gray and modular is the same way. And one of the big missteps people take it or make here is that they don't take the time to figure that out, and make sure that everything is covered, and that all those things are answered and getting the right team together in the first place.

John McMullen 

What's the what's the ideal timeline for a modular project?

Curtis Fletcher 

So, I want to return a question. So by timeline, what do you mean? Do you mean like, like, the length of time or do you mean…?

John McMullen 

Well, I guess every project is different, and you've got different factors to consider when you're talking about how long a project takes. But, um, let's see, I'll rephrase that: What's the ideal process for a modular project? Like what happens first, what happens second?

Curtis Fletcher 

Yeah. So, first thing is, you know, as I illustrated earlier, just a schematic design getting to that level. And then you know, from that point, what, what we like to do is we like to take that project then and then take over sort of the components ignited, be built in a factory and have those designed and developed so that all that factory stuff is figured out, start to finish. Now, that also includes the state submittal process and getting approved by the state, whatever state we're doing work in, and that process can be pretty lengthy depending on the timeliness of everybody on the team, and getting answers and deciding on specifications and all these different things that occur in a modular project.

You know, the ideal time, you know, to get like the length of time to get a project done to sort of illustrate that is, is anywhere from, you know, from a design stance anywhere from, you know, call it six months to nine months, depending on the team itself, right? We're actively trying to compress that through various means. We'd really like to see that at a four-month window for that design element to work better with finance and other components in the market.

John McMullen 

What advice do you have for traditional builders or designers who are considering modular? What do they what do they need to know before their first modular project?

Curtis Fletcher 

I think they need to know that there are different groups out there—Prefab Logic being one of them, but there are others, you know—that are very useful resources in the industry and MBI being one of them as well, right, that can help guide and shape their experience, you know, and in the modular pursuit. And reaching out to people that that have done it, and have a proven track record is really sort of paramount and your success.

John McMullen 

So, I've been asking a lot of “modular 101-type” of questions. So I'm going to throw a “modular 201” question at you: For teams who've already dipped their toes into modular construction—they’ve done a couple of projects—what lessons should they be trying to learn? And what process improvements should they be looking to make as they continue further down the line?

Curtis Fletcher 

You know, I think the I think the lessons that that any group should be learning is that, you know, first off, if you've done your first project, you've undoubtedly felt some pain, right? What you should know, and the lesson learned here is, you know, take that no different than site construction, take those lessons and apply them to the next project over time. And then and then develop your team, right? Over time, you will get to be like a machine in terms of producing, you know, the on-site completion process, and also the experience with the manufacturing, and pick a team and stay with it. Right. I mean, if you if you move from group to group to group, it gets very difficult to get, you know, a consistent outcome. If you can pick a team and ride that horse, and then refine your process, I think that's probably where you bring those lessons to bear on, you know, you know, throughout the, throughout the development timeline.

John McMullen 

We've had a lot of people speak to the value of, of teams and communication, but I think the way you put it, you know, sticking with that team, finding a team that works, sticking with them, and really just making sure that your wheels are greased and everything's working smoothly…I think it's great advice. So, thank you for that.

What are the next five to 10 years of modular construction look like? Where's the industry headed, do you think?

Curtis Fletcher 

Oh, well, you know, it's, it's, yeah…I've got a lot of forecasts for that. But it's, you know, I think it's gonna be very interesting. I mean, the market today is very, very up and down, right, in terms of supply chain and cost structures and so forth. But, you know, what we're seeing in the, in the marketplace is just this, this loss of skilled labor, right, which is been accelerated in a big way by the pandemic, leading people to retire early and find out that they you know, that they can retire, which is really led to this mass exodus of the industry, and leaving us with a lot of unskilled and untrained labor in the market, and just not enough of it in particular. And so when I look out five to 10 years from now, and the shortage of housing and the homelessness and you know, kind of unattainable housing in the marketplace, you know, I believe that manufacturing has to get better. You know, in terms of The number of units we can produce. And that can take various forms, I'm you know, I'm kohner, and very involved in a, in an automated manufacturing facility myself, and, you know, that is, in my view one of the big future components, because it's very tough to get labor right now. And it's the only way we're gonna actually offset that, that labor so that we can, you know, take the heavy lifting off the people and, and create an environment that people want to work in.

But we have to be able to produce more and as to get more automotive like, and to do that, it's going to take some big shifts in the market, in terms of what we find acceptable for housing, right, in terms of, you know, the size of the housing, the complexity of that housing. So, so we've got a lot of initiatives surrounding that in our various companies, but I see housing improving, I think, I think it will hit especially from the modular perspective, it will hit a new momentum over the next decade that that should be pretty unbelievable.

John McMullen 

Well, that's, that's exciting. And fingers crossed!

That's just about it for my questions, but I had one left: You are going to be at the upcoming World of Modular conference in April, and we were chatting before the podcast started, we're very excited to get back together, get the industry back together…I was wondering if you could touch on the presentation that you'll be doing there? And what are you excited to share? And what are you hoping people will learn from your session?

Curtis Fletcher 

Yeah, you know, yeah, that talk is really gonna sort of revolve around what we're doing and our processes here. prefab logic and what, what we've learned in those processes and how that is shaping the industry in terms of data and schedules, and, you know, the, the way we visualize projects, you know, using VR and AR and AR experience and production environments, but that and the paperless environments, you know, again, sort of leading to the same narrative of, you know, how do we get production to happen faster, right? It's not just about designing buildings, it's about how can we make buildings more manufacturable you know, at a better pace.

And so my talk is really going to revolve around that format that we've been using to help drive the industry forward. And, and hopefully sharing that message to other groups to do the same, right. We're all about helping lift, lift everybody's boat, right? And, and we need a lot of manufacturing in the marketplace and without, without sharing, you know, to other people, how we're doing it. And the experiences we've had and I've been at this for 39 years, myself, my partner's for I think 46 or 47 years. So, we've you know, we've seen a lot over our time, we're kind of at the at the tail end of our careers, we're hoping to get new folks into the marketplace, you know, younger people into the marketplace that want to pick up the mantle and carry it. And so my message is going to really revolve more around technology and the things we're doing and sort of the excitement that brings to the market, but should be a fantastic session.

John McMullen 

Curtis, I'm excited for it. Thank you for your time today. I really appreciate it. I know you're busy guy. I look forward to seeing you in April at the World of Modular.

Curtis Fletcher 

I thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

John McMullen 

My name is John McMullen. And this has been another episode of Inside Modular: The Podcast of Commercial Modular Construction. Until next time.